Hillary’s loss, Trump’s win, and the Importance of an Accurate Birth Time

In July of this year I posted an astrological analysis of the election in which I wrote the following:
Hillary Clinton is more likely than Donald Trump to be our next president, though she will have some tough times in late summer/early fall during the height of the campaign. Trump is extremely popular and has tapped powerfully into the public mood, so a Trump win is not out of the question.”

This last statement was based on the fact that “Trump’s natal Moon falls  exactly on the USA progressed Ascendant, an indication that Trump’s sense of the public mood of the America people is exactly in accord with the emotional state of the populace.”

My reasoning about Hillary’s victory being more likely was based on an 8:02 AM time of birth, which was in wide use among astrologers.  We do not have a copy of her birth certificate, but I later learned that Chris Brennan had asked Hillary her birth time at a book signing, to which she replied 8 PM (a full 12 hours later). About 30 minutes into his Podcast about Hillary’s birth time, Chris also reports having a 1993 article from the Chicago Sun Times which states that Hillary’s mother went into the hospital in the morning and that Hillary was born after a 12-hour labor, which is consistent with a PM birth time.

Astrologer Al Mackenzie looked at my analysis of the 8 AM chart and wrote: “Trump’s progressed Ascendant ruler (himself) is well-dignified and conjunct the progressed US MC…to me that speaks better of his chances than the ill-dignified Saturn ruling her chart which falls in the US eighth.”  In other words, Al looked at the same information and concluded that Trump would win the presidency. Al was right, I was wrong.  But the 8 PM chart tells a different story.

The crux of my prediction was that, despite the negative factors which Al Mackenzie was alluding to, in Hillary’s secondary progressed chart (8:02 AM birth time), her progressed Mercury and Sun were in a cazimi configuration in mid-October of 2016 just weeks before the November election. To the Arab astrologers a planet in cazimi was “in the heart of the Sun” and therefore shone with the brilliance of the Sun.  In Hillary’s 8 AM chart, Mercury rules her career and public status, so I concluded that this was the determining factor which would take her to the White House since it occurred so close to the election.

If we consider the 8 PM time, which Hillary says is her true birth time, the situation charges significantly.  In this case, the Mercury/Sun cazimi configuration took place in mid-April of 2016 during the primary season and indicated her defeating Bernie Sanders to become the Democratic candidate.  By November 8 of 2016, progressed Mercury and the progressed Sun were 21′ of arc apart, well beyond the 17′ of arc limit of cazimi. Here Mercury is combust the Sun, totally obscured and “burnt” by the Sun’s rays — a symbol of  invisibility, inactivity and a lack of prominence.  Maybe it’s just Monday morning quarterbacking, but had I used the 8 PM time, I would have predicted that Trump was more likely than Hillary to win the election.


In this graphic, the central wheel is is USA Gemini rising chart progressed to November 8, 2016. The out wheel is Hillary’s 8 PM birth time chart progressed to the same date.

Mercury rules the Whole Sign 10th house of the USA progressed chart. Hillary’s Mercury/Sun conjunction in Capricorn is a combust configuration which squares her progressed Neptune as well as the progressed USA MC.  This is an aspect of discouragement and dissolution.  In addition, Hillary’s progressed Ascendant lies in Leo (ruled by the Sun) in the 8th house of death, where the ASC conjoins the malefic Saturn in the sign of its detriment.  A comparison of these progressed charts (USA and Hillary for an 8 PM birth) suggests that she will lose the election.

Fortunately, I stated in the July post that my prediction at that time was predicated on a speculative birth time of 8:02 AM and that a different birth time could result in a different outcome. The 8 PM time suggests a loss for Hillary in the 2016 election.

About Anthony Louis

Author of books about astrology and tarot, including TAROT PLAIN AND SIMPLE, HORARY ASTROLOGY, and THE ART OF FORECASTING WITH SOLAR RETURNS.
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8 Responses to Hillary’s loss, Trump’s win, and the Importance of an Accurate Birth Time

  1. Jeffrey Geist says:

    Hi Tony. Long time no talk. Thank you for the excellent article. At the very least, secondary prgd Gemini rising Ascendant in 21+ Sag makes an excellent argument for the validity of this chart of the USA – given that 21 Sag our infamous Mars-Neptune sq virtually exactly. Also noticed that the progressed Moon at time of HRC’s concession (approx 2:38 am EST) in 12Pisces21 was less than 1 dg from sec prgd US Sun in 11 Pisces+. Otherwise, thought your points all well-taken and good article. But allow me to share with you my own – I think relevant – experience in this (as above and as I see it) Mars-Neptune-like experience. I apologize in advance for the length of my comment, but think you WILL find reading it rewarding, if not completely “ironic.”

    As you may recall, I had finished writing a book called the Art Of The Journey (A Guide To Solar Return Relocation For Action Astrologers) exactly to the day 8 years prior to this election. I had explained to you years ago that in order to “prove” SR workability and, more so, solar return journey (SRJ) effectiveness AND workability, I had used a rather pinpoint method of prediction/forecasting that I know you had used in exploring the death of Jon Benet Ramsey in one of your books that I call solar return secondary progression, but is technically the mean solar quotidian (I use Bijah day style) in the settings of the Solar Fire program, in which the angles of a solar return chart can be moved by more or less a degree/day hitting off this or that planet, with the Moon moving a degree or more per month, depending on how fast the Moon is moving at the time of the return. The movement of the other planets is, practically speaking, unappreciable, as the Sun moves at most about a degree, Venus slightly more or less than this, Mercury no more than 2 dg, Mars no more than 48′ (?), and the other planets hardly at all. Started using this methodology around 1990, when I started writing the book (took me a long time to write, took a lot of SRJs). About six months prior to this election, I printed out a number of these progressions and super-imposed them (bi-wheel) over both Donald Trump’s (DT) SR for his place of birth (I told you in the past I call this the Mission chart, place of birth, and a kind of when in doubt location that works for important events despite where a native may or may not have actually been) as well as over his natal figure.

    Sometime before the end of the last century in the process of writing my SRJ book, looking for more pinpoint “action” astrologically than could be afforded by the mere movement of the angles of the SR (and the 12-15-dg motion of the prgd SR Moon) I chanced upon the idea of what I call transiting solar arc (TSA). I believe I shared this idea with you several years ago. You are the only person I know of who has ever used the aforementioned SR sec prgs (mean solar quotidian = MSQ); I know of no one who has ever used SR TSAs (although ‘am well aware of the “universal conversation”). To review, one takes the distance between the Sun at the moment of an event (concession of HRC to DT) and – in this case – natal Sun [or the precession-corrected Sun, for those of that ilk]) of DT and adds it to all sensitive points one considers. Use of this method has the advantage of giving us not only angles to planets, but planets to angles, as well as planets to planets or other points of our choosing. I obviously incorporated it in my book – again to prove viability, workability and effectiveness of SRs and SRJs. Since having finished my SRJ book in November ’08 I also started applying the same principle used with TSAs to lunar returns (LR) – in other words transiting lunar arc. Because the Moon moves on average about a degree every 2 hours or slightly less, this method can be even more fascinating for temporal accuracy. All these methods are great for rectification, as you can well infer. I have since been using these methods for other purposes than just proving the efficacy of SRJs and SRs in general.

    Given the uncertainty of HRC’s birth time that you pointed out, I saw no reason to waste time trying to figure it out and, about six months prior to the election, given that we DID have an accurate birth time and date for DT, did a bunch of studies using the above methods moving everything by MSQ, TSA or TLA, decided that HRC would win by a narrow margin with Trump crying fowl and forgot about. Unfortunately, a month or two ago, I realized I had made stupid mathematical errors (typos?) in my calculations and then forgot about it again – not being able to imagine a Trump victory in my GUT. I also forgot that one of the reasons I had gotten into astrology in the first place was that I couldn’t always trust my gut. Nonetheless, still believing in my “gut,” I nonetheless re-worked my calculations using the above methodologies and then just forgot about them. This was 2-3 days before the election. I moved everything to about 10 pm on Nov 8, 2016…which was about the time I figured folks would start having an idea of “what was what.”

    At 2:38 am on 11/9/16, as horrified by Hillary’s concession moment as most of us, I finally took a look in the calculations I had done about 3 days earlier, which were still in my printer tray. To be sure, I HAD looked at one of them the day of the election. In this I had superimposed the TSAs of DT’s Jamaica, NY tropical solar return (moved to 10 pm, 11/8) over DT’s natal chart. Strangely, I did not bother looking at either the TSAs nor the MSQs to DT’s tropical SR!!!! This superimpositional figure (in a pro-DT fashion) showed only the TSA Moon in 00Pisces, just separated from conjunction of DT’s natal Ascendant, cause for alarm, but in the face of TSA Saturn less than 44 degrees short of DT’s Sun and TSA Neptune 44 dg short of DTs Sun as well (they were exactly sq in the Leo rising SR) and both making exact 135 aspects to his Moon in 21 Sag – interestingly enough as per your article with Gem rising USA progressed Asc in 21 Sag – I reconfirmed my “gut feeling,” and forgot about it until late in the night. I just couldn’t imagine him winning with TSA Saturn-Neptune from the SR superimpositionally hitting his FM “ball-game.” I obviously neglected the SR TSA Pisces Moon on the Desc along with a few other things. In the spirit of Pisces, I was seeing what I wanted to believe. What turned out – in an expression that DT loves to use ad nauseum and characteristic of Saturn-Neptune contacts was “UNBELIEVABLE” (Sat = “un”; Neptune = “believable”). That’s how it played out I guess.

    Stupidly, not having supereimposed my TSAs and MSQs on the trop SRs themselves, I missed the most obvious and unequivocal virtual “guarantee” of a Trump victory – which was that both the MSQ and TSA MCs in 15+ Virgo (only minutes away from each other) were exactly (within zodiacal minutes) of exact conjunction with both the trop SR Jupiter and prgd Jupiter (only a few minutes different, of course)!!!! Given the lack of Hillary birth time and in the spirit of “one uses what one is given,” on this phenomenon alone one would HAVE to conclude a DT victory. Not that it’s so important to be right, as opposed to being wrong; but I hope you can imagine how stupid I felt on making this discovery – which I had already printed out. I had also done TLAs to the LR chart for 10 pm and reviewed them to 2:38 am of the next day…the various orbs thereby moving a bit more than 2dg from the 10 pm time. TLA Saturn, interestingly, was suuperimpostionally exactly conjunct Trump’s natal Sun – raising the question (as much as most of us can’t stand him) that perhaps, karmically speaking, he was getting what he deserved, at least from this LR TLA point of view. At 10 pm, amongst the charts I had already printed out 2-3 days prior to the election, TLA MC was one hour short of conjunctioning LR Mars in 25dg Capricorn (exaltation of Mars in the LR 4th house (interestingly enough the same degree as Obama’s Saturn and close to USA Pluto, where it would be at about the time of the concession). At 10 pm, TLA Jupiter in 17Aries03 was exactly conjunct Jamaica, NY LR Desc in 17Aries01 – obviously indicative of Trump partisans “feeling” imminent victory. Interestingly enough, given always great importance of the angles, about two hours prior to this the TLA Asc had just conjuncted LR Uranus, and at 10 pm it was almost exactly conjunct LR Eris. This, of course, was just about the time all those fearful of a Trump victory started to freak. Lastly, having found tertiary progressions to be nothing short of amazing in virtually all cases, I will point out that – again going back to 21 Sag (prgd Gem rising USA Asc and Trump’s Moon) – in the tert chart I drew up (after the fact) for the concession time of 2:38 am 11/8, it will be noted that tertiary MC in 21Sag43 (moving approximately a little less than a dg/month was just 31’ past Trump’s natal Moon in 21Sag12 with tertiary Venus in 26Sag49 exactly trine within 3 zodiacal minutes DT’s natal Mars in 26Leo46. Venus, of course, rules DT’s MC, however, superimpositional these 2 figures may be. The TSA Moon, moving about a degree/2.5 days was on his virtual natal Zenith in 28+ Taurus, sq his natal Pars Fortuna in 28 Aquarius. Forgot to mention that his SR TSA Sun in 17 Scorpio on HRC concession as well as my initially 10 pm charts was in 17 dg of Scorpio, exactly conjunct his trop SR Jamaica, NY SR Pars Fortuna. So much for the “blanket”/sound byte” theory the ancients would have us believe that the Part of Fortune is the “Part of Misfortune” when in Scorpio – unless, of course, in this case it means part of “misfortune” for We The People.I hope not. Thank you for allowing these comments and for your own very interesting articlee which inspired them./Jeff Geist

    • Amanda says:

      Hi Anthony,
      I’m new to your comments section. A few years ago I read a post from your blog on sirius leaving USA natal sun on 2018, and your argument that economy would change by then. When I saw the election results, the first thing that came to my mind was that blog post.

      I never found much correlation between election wins and natal charts. I have an eye for mundane astrology, and I especulate if the candidate wins not due to himself (charisma, projects/proposals, marketing or natal chart), but to fill a role in the mundane.

      The world is kind of ugly with pluto in capricorn in my opinion. We are seeing shifts of power in all countries (South Korea about to impeach president, Brazil impeached president, USA elected a newbie politician for the highest rank), not to mention the waves of intolerance and hate of all sorts worldwide.

      Somehow I wonder if we are in a prelude to 2020, when we will have jupiter, saturn and pluto in capricorn, not to mention the personal planets that cross the sign yearly.

      Anyway, this is just a suggestion for you to write what you think about it.

  2. Thanks Jeff,
    It’s always good to hear from you. I’ll have to go through your argument carefully because there are a lot of details.

    • Jeffrey Geist says:

      Thank you; I REALLY do look forward to your response. I sent it to you unedited and then reading it over realized I had made a lot of mistakes, mostly of the typo variety, in addition to miss-spellings. Main point to convey re that right now is that, to avoid confusing you, I had printed out just days earlier all my SR sec prg and transiting solar arc as well as transiting lunar arc superimpositions to Trump’s SRs and LRs, all of which showed his victory (given the absence of a reliable HRC chart), as well as the one stupid SR TSA to his natal that I DID look at prior to the election (the whole picture of which I failed to see) which threw me off because I guess I didn’t want to see what was coming. Perhaps what is most amazing in what I found in responding to your article, is how nicely my zodiacal positions stand up for the 21 Sag progressed Asc you’re using off the USA Gemini rising chart, including the tertiaries I mention at the end of my comment to you – not to mention Trump’s natal Moon in 21 Sag itself. Quite a revelation to me, an inveterate Sibley user. Would love to chat at some point with you on why and how you decided to use the Gem rising chart for the US. Thanks much/Jeff

  3. Lucy B says:

    The first time I saw Trump in the Republican Primaries I remember the media portraying him as this eccentric billionaire who was quite charismatic yet they didn’t take him seriously.
    I looked at his natal chart and the chart progressions and Solar Arcs for the election and predicted he would win despite some of the difficult transits he is facing.

    1. In his birth chart he has Uranus conjunct his North Node and his Sun in his 10th house of career. This to me meant he was destined (North Node) to be a revolutionary (Uranus) figure in the eye of the public.
    2. He was experiencing a JUPITER return in his 2nd house.
    3. In his Solar Arc chart his NORTH NODE was slap bang on his ASCENDANT which is conjunct Regulus in his natal chart. This indicates a major life event that is an unalterable destiny (NN)
    4. In Hillary’s progressed chart there were hard aspects from Pluto and Saturn to her 10th house. I think that meant the sudden destruction or end of her career.

    Also Uranus is in Aries meaning an Individual/Individuals will shake up the world as we know it!!
    And Pluto in Capricorn, the last time Pluto was in Capricorn was when America was Founded!!
    Then bring on the revolutions in government structure in the years 2020-2023 when Pluto in Capricorn is in the ending degrees, then we shall delve into bizarre and unpredictable Pluto in Aquarius (as an Aquarius Sun conjunct Uranus and Taurus moon square Uranus I can’t wait to see what will happen).

    Next stop on this Nationalist Revolution will be France!!

    xx from Australia

  4. daritarose says:

    I was wondering if you did SRs on them both?

  5. Unfortunately, we do not have a verified birth time for Hillary, so the solar return is speculative. I had tried with a birth time of 8 AM, which was popular among astrologers at the time despite the fact that Hillary says it was around 8 PM. I thought Trump had a strong solar return for the election year but that Hillary’s 8 AM chart was stronger, so I expected her to win by a small margin. I was, of course, wrong, so my guess is that we should believe Hillary when she says she was born around 8 PM.

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